This is a post that I’ve been meaning to write for awhile.. Just somethings that I wanted to talk about, and some ideas I wanted to bounce off of you guys.
It was actually a post by Sinn on his blog The Sinns of Attraction, and a comment that Seraf left on this blog, that puts the wheels into motion on this post. They are unrelated topics but in the scheme of things both are relevant in the context of this post.
Sinn’s post, which I suggest you guys read, is all about the shit his readers are giving him for pushing a product that he is selling on his blog. Sinn does a good job defending his right to sell a product, and also brings up some interesting points regarding guys looking for handouts on the internet.
Seraf’s comment was something along the lines of “all the MPUAs always give different advice. I don’t know who to follow. Ah”
So in this post I want to discuss 1. Sinn’s post and how I feel about gurus selling products. 2. How I feel about paying for ebooks and media programs. 3. How you should view the different products and advice coming out in relation to Seraf’s quote about not knowing who to follow. 4. Why I feel we need a data base of reviews and how to create one. 5. How to get the most use and value from the MPUA’s advice.
Now a lot of you will probably think I disagree with Sinn about his rant against people complaining that he is putting out a product rather than giving his information away for free. But the truth is that I agree with him completely. Now, I don’t follow Sinn’s blog, nor do I have any clue what the product he is releasing is… but the fact remains if the guy wants to charge money for something he has created he has every right to do so.
Since the internet’s rise in popularity everyone seems to want everything for free. Sinn and the rest of the gurus give out a lot of great information for free. I usually scour every newsletter, site, and forum I can to find the best of this information and pass it along on this blog. But I will never post anything on this blog that was not intended to be given away for free. Meaning don’t ever expect me to post an ebook on TSB, or download CDs to share.
From running this blog I know how much time and energy it takes to be continually innovating, teaching and writing. For most of the gurus (with exception of the really big names) they have full time jobs and lives separate from the community. These guys are going out, learning systems that work, honing the fine details, putting it down on paper, and finding ways to market it to guys that need the help. And most of them are doing this on their spare time. For people to get pissed at them for trying to make a buck is pure selfishness. These guys have gone out, made the mistakes, learned the craft, so that you guys have it easier. Writing en ebook is a pain in the ass. Trying writing more than 5 pages on a topic… then imagine writing 150-200 pages. So I think anyone that criticizes them for charging $30-40 is out of line.
I also feel that people cheating these guys out of money is wrong on a few different levels. First, like I said these guys (most of them…I’ll get to the ones that didn’t later) put a lot of work into creating their products. If you obtain their stuff without paying you’re stealing from them. Point Blank. Second, if these guys can no longer earn any money selling this stuff, the free information you guys love will dry up. The whole reason so much free information is available is because these guys are giving away some of their advice in hopes of finding customers for their product. Third, you’re cheating your self by not paying for stuff you believe might help you. It is a proven idea that you get much more value out of something you paid for. I can attest to this… Years back (before blogs like this were around) I spent hard earned cash on 3 different ebooks. And I devoured them. I studied them. And I made them work for me. I got well more out of them than the $150 I spent for the three. I just don’t think you can see those kind of results without some sort of investment into it.
Now, don’t get me wrong. I think that it is getting absolutely ridiculous with all the guys jumping on bandwagon of writing ebooks and creating audio programs. There are like 500 out there now. Some of these people have no credentials and no right giving out advice.. but I think that in due time these guys will be exposed. I also think that some of the big name guys are getting greedy and rehashing old shit and trying to make a quick buck. And personally I would never ever pay $2000 and up for any kind of lesson or boot camp. Nor do I have any desire to write a “how to” book on picking up women (even though I know it would make sick money pretty quickly.)
So, how does this relate to Seraf’s comment. Who do you follow when often their advice contradicts each others? There are many ways to get the same end result. Its like in a football game. Two different coaches can call completely different style games and still lead their teams to victory. Its because the system they’ve created works inside their set of rules. The same thing happens in pickup. In someone like Badboy’s direct game system, showing your interest is essential. Everything Badboy teaches revolves around this principle. So each component of direct game flows together. If you follow his system, learn, and properly implement it, it will work for you. The same can be said for the Mystery Method where you’re going in under the radar. Everything in The Mystery Method is designed for a purpose, and when done correctly achieves predictable results. The problem guys run into is they take a little bit of everyone and try to mix them altogether. That would be like randomly taking a few plays of Tom Coughlin’s play book and mixing in some from Bill Belechick’s play book and seeing what would happen. Everything would be fucked up. Complimenting doesn’t work if you’re game is based on trying to act disinterested and build attraction subtly. But if you feel more comfortable being direct and your game is congruent with that, then complimenting a girl can be gold.
I could write a whole post on why you should stick with one style of game (in the beginning) but right now I wanted to move ahead with another idea. In this post I’ve talked about paying for products, and gave a few reasons why it is important. But I also addressed the issue of gurus putting out shit products, and its getting ever hard to know what is worth your money and what is not.
So, I’m going to start a PUA/Seduction product review data base here at TSB. I’ve already reviewed a handful of products and am in the process of reviewing some more. But I want you guys to participate in this data base so that we get as many different opinions as possible.
PUA/Seduction Product Review Program
I’m going to create an incentive to review products. I will pay $5 a review- for product reviews sent in to me here. The reviews must be in a format that I will provide you with. Also, any one who sends in a review will receive a copy of Mike Stoute’s Boyfriend Experience PDF file, unavailable anywhere. Finally, I will give people who send in well-written educational reviews an opportunity to be a reviewer here at TSB. And that means you’ll have free access to all the products I receive from the gurus for review. Basically you’ll have unlimited ebook and audio access, just as long as you provide reviews for them.
Best of all, I think that by creating this Review Data Base it will make it easier to determine which products are worth the money and which ones are not. It will help rid the community of the vultures trying to make a quick buck. And it will reward the gurus who have really innovated and created a system of value.
I recently sent Seraf a copy of Mark Redman’s College Dating Dynamics ebook to review.. I will be posting his review of the book shortly, for all those of you caught up in “the truth about college” buzz.
Hopefully, you guys will provide us with many more reviews!!!
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February 4, 2008
Agree with most this… We definitely need a review section so we can have insight into what we are ordering.
gurus selling shit is part of america. Time is money and these guys put in lots of time.
What i dont 100% agree on is you saying you should only stick with one guru’s advice. I think its good to take the best of what you like from various guys.
February 4, 2008
I agree with Bobby Rio, ace11, take it from someone who has access to pretty much EVERY seduction product out there. By taking the best out of anything, you REALLY screw yourself up.
I’ve already got a review section Bobby, but MORE the merrier mate!!
Donovan’s last blog post..How To Get A Free Copy Of David Deangelo?s Advanced Dating Techniques
February 4, 2008
Ace, Rio is not saying stick with one, he is saying begin with one and once you have it down you and mix and match.
Personally I do agree with him, you need a foundation for everything in life. Think of it like bartending, the foundation was wine, beer, and the hard stuff, now we have mixed drinks like jack and coke or margaritas which then led to this big spree of people creating stuff like yellow canaries and crazy shit with too many ingrediants but all in all every drink we make today is just a build off a foundation.
Pickup is an art, so you need to learn a style before you can create your own. If you start with Ross Jeffries stuff follow it till you have it down, then implament David Deangilo or Mystery stuff…. and dare i say it have a crack at Durden stuff too *shudders*
February 4, 2008
Bobby-
I liked this post. Very very true. Different things work for different people…especially depending on the situation they’re in or what they’re looking for.
I’m not looking to be a reviewer…I simply don’t have the time for it. If you’d like a copy of Seb Drake’s book, I’ll email it to you. I found it a simple outline of their work, it doesn’t nearly come close to all they teach but I know you like his work. He has a funny intro about pirating…and while everyone does it you should make sure you learn something from the content.
If you’re interested in making a review you can email me at the address listed.
-Chase
February 4, 2008
I am a big fan of Sebastian Drake.. I am quite back logged in material at the moment.. but he is someone I would like to get a review done of.. hopefully i find some good volunteers.
Ace,
I’m not saying don’t take the best of everyone.. I’m saying learn a system… see if it fits your personality… then decide what you need to make it better…
Donovan
I have a review page already too.. But I’m also looking to get reviews from the readers.. because me and you get so much stuff to review its hard to view it from the perspective of a newbie, and also we have friendships with a lot of the gurus which makes it hard for us to always be objective. SO i believe its good to have readers supplement our reviews with their own…
February 5, 2008
Man, I’ve been wondering why my review hasn’t been posted yet…I’ve been checking everyday for it!
As a (broadcast) journalism major, I want to do as many reviews as I can to build my portfolio. Anything on this site is considered published, thus eligible for my portfolio (tho I don’t think any published material on seduction would look to professional….)
-Seraf
February 5, 2008
hey, does anyone have any advice for getting over a girl youve fallen head over heals for but know you’ve fucked things up with?
February 5, 2008
Eddy,
Go fuck ten other women.
February 5, 2008
IF you start that up, then I will definitely review some stuff that I have bought. One of the things I’m glad I spent money on was Derek Vitalio’s seduction archetype hypnosis. That is some dynamite shit!
February 5, 2008
I like this post for many reasons…
Our community has grown so much in the past decade or so, that the amount of PUA products is ridicolous…
art of approaching, venusian arts, the rules of the game, other ebboks and audio CDs etc..
Not that i have anything against this products (They are really good ^^). But as Bobby said, theres like about 500 right?
Who to follow is crucial, because it relies on your style in the game - your style in life, it will determine your outlook and personality.
The review section is a great idea, $5 per review…hope it doesn’t get abused XD.
But i am willing to post some reviews if i have time, i think its important for people to know how good these 500 products are..
Hmmm, i might start a DYD review, after reading it ^^.
Pzz
February 5, 2008
Baby cortez, I’d love to hear a review of Vitalio’s program..i’ve always been a fan of his.
I’ll post the format I want reviews in a day or two..
looking forward to everyone’s reviews…
February 5, 2008
February 5, 2008
Bobby-
In response to your last post I didn’t mean to start shit with pirating. Everyone has done it. If someone has put their time into creating something they should be paid for it…period.
I just found it funny that the one e-book I purchased had a full page intro that if you pirate shit, you should take the time to actually get something out of it.
Classic cost-worth theory. If you don’t pay/work for something it won’t mean much to you. You have to put the time in to get what is being offered.
February 5, 2008
i didn’t think you were starting shit.. my last comment was just cuz i didnt want guys to think i went all high and mighty on them..
February 6, 2008
Bobby,
these are my options on what i could possibly write a review on (and i’ve already read/watched/listen to them all of course)
1. Double Your Dating
2.Style’s Annihilation Method
3.Mystery’s Magnum Opus: The Mind of Mystery
4.Thundercats Art Of Approaching
6.Swingcats Real World Seduction
7.The Complete Mystery Method
8.Ross Jeffries Gold Walkups DVD
9.Pretty much any David Deangelo’s products.
the only thing i have not yet completed is the Mind of Mystery program, but it would definitely be worth the wait and price of the program since it has ALOT of real quality stuff. it even made me stop reading the Rules of The Game for a while, since i feel i could actually learn more in the short term with the things Mystery offers in the program.
February 6, 2008
Im currently working my way through The Mystery Method: how to get beautiful women into bed, and The rules of the Game. Just finished the Game which i would happily do a review over but who wouldnt haha. I would be more than happy to read through some stuff and review it but, what about videos? I mean yes there are alot of online PUA videos that are free but are any of them worth watching to learn things? I have seen some intresting ones but few have actually taught me anything so should there be reviews for them?
February 6, 2008
FredEx..WOW you have a collection and a half..
And you were talkin’ about being discrete to your family -_- haha.
Style Annihilation AND Mystery’s Magnum Opus: The Mind of Mystery
I want those 2 baddd, but i either can’t afford it at the moment or, no one could collect the delivery since no one is usually at home during the day >_<.
I would be interested in those 2 reviews FredEx. ^^
And typically interested in Mehow’s get the girl ebook. Probably because his style is really unique, sure it might have the same game dynamics as the others, but i’m very interested on how he creates attraction in a very short amount of time, purely with the use of kino when i saw some of his vids.
It would be very insightful to get a review from this.
Pzz
February 6, 2008
I would definately be interested in a review for the following:
Real World Seduction (i read it awhile ago)
Art of Approaching (many people ask me about this one)
The Mind of Mystery
Kevin
Mehows ebook i def want a review for. hopefully someone volunteers.. if not the winner of the comment contest will hopefully send us a reveiw.
Thumbs
I would def like a review of Rules of the game when you finish
thanks guys… ask for the format and I’ll email it over to anyone who intends on writing a review
February 6, 2008
Bobby,
I found this great blog on phone game, straight from Neil Strauss himself!
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=48124294&blogID=355235365&Mytoken=4995B0CE-2345-40BD-94C24477058DF13A696249756
Maybe you would like to post it? I found it extremely helpful.
-Seraf
February 6, 2008
I’ll post it today.. Hey, you should go to gravitar.com and add an avator for your comments.
Everybody should for that matter!
February 6, 2008
all i got that isnt already listed is that MTV cd and the art of seduction book and im not nearly done with the magnum opus so i know fred will be done with that before me
February 6, 2008
o yea mehows ebook too
February 6, 2008
Ohyeahh…The art of seduction.. i forgot about that lol. I was going to buy it before christmas.
I wouldn’t mind reading a review about that.
Btw can anyone see my avatar? All it shows for me is the gravatar logo XD.
Pzz
February 6, 2008
cant see your avatar.. you should go back to gravitar and see if you can redo it.
February 6, 2008
lol Kevin,
its easy keeping things discrete from my parents as long as they are on My Computer.. but once you take them and deliver them out into the real world like i had to do with Rules of The Game (couldnt find an e book version of it), then thats when things get complicated.. i actually had to disguise the buying of that book by spending another 10 bucks on some huge Encyclopedia of Jokes book. i got made fun of for a few days for buying it, but it was worth it as long as they dont know what i really bought ;)\
and btw, Mind of Mystery review coming as soon as i finish it.. theres ALOT to watch and listen to, so it might be another couple weeks as im barely finishing up the videos.
February 7, 2008
I checked out that gravitar site, but all I found was some weird astro-cartoon site.
-Seraf
February 7, 2008
Is the mind of Mystery his new one or the e-book?
February 7, 2008
Oh and I’ll definittly do the rules of the game review i jsut gotta get through it, 30 day how to guide and ive been stuck on day 9 because of work and school and i just dont feel i met the requirments for it (opne 3 sets useing roots and time contraints) I use roots well but time contraints i forget to throw in even though i understand them,
February 7, 2008
Mind of Mystery is like the ultimate collection of Mystery’s teachings, all in video and audio format.
the best thing about the collection is an hour and a half worth of Mystery & matador in field footage. it blew my mind the first time i saw it.
February 8, 2008
Bobby,
I agree with your philosophy of sticking with the method you feel most comfortable with before getting fancy and trying to learn 100 different ways to do something. I have to confess tho that I use 2 gurus materials at the same time that I feel work very well together for me: David Deangelo and Neil Strauss.
Here’s my reasoning behind it:
Similar to you, I used David Deangelo’s cocky & funny with a lot of success within my social circle in college. But now being out in the real world, I think Neil Strauss’ Rules of the Game is exactly what I need to get out of my comfort zone. I feel that Deangelo gives you excellent theories on why thinks work a certain way, and Strauss gives you a step-by-step plan to implement it all. This is a good analogy:
If pickup were an exercise program, David Deangelo explains to you what muscle groups to work out together, why its bad to overtrain, what foods groups are beneficial in getting stronger, etc. This is all important material, but it doesn’t give you an exact workout program to put into action.
Neil Strauss on the other hand, will tell you the exact number of sets and reps to do for each muscle, exactly how to perform each exercise, and how long to rest between sets. He will also tell you what days to do each muscle, and how to vary your workout as time goes on. This is great for taking action and getting outside your comfort zone, but doesn’t give you the full understanding of why the things you are doing work, and without that knowledge you wouldn’t be able to adjust your workout to something that works and is tailored specifically to you. I think the combination of these two is the best fit for me personally, but again like Bobby says i wouldn’t recommend learning too much at once.
BTW Bobby, I would be interested in doing reviews of products for you. I also signed up for David Deangelo’s Man Transformation Seminar this April in Los Angeles.. I’m getting ready to join the big leagues
Platinum
February 10, 2008
Ahh okay, its really easy for me, cuz my parents don’t really care haha.
Mayn, now i REALLY want the mind of mystery, but i think its out of stock now right? (when i last checked it) How much did you get it for btw?
Pzz